Sunday, February 20, 2005

Converting Messianic Jews

Click above for a thread on Discarded Lies about Messianic Jews. I believe most, if not all, of the authors of this blog are Jews. This question about Messianic Jews struck me as quite honest and worthy of an attempt at an honest response. You have to look way down to number 84 of the comments section to see my first response, then the counter response and now my counter-counter response quoted below...
"Ploome - Thanks.
But already I can see the outline of the Christian response. This is the interpretation of the rabbis. Jesus quotes The Word of God. Now admittedly, if you start out skeptical, you never get around to looking at the question from this point of view and will definitely come to a different conclusion.
In an effort to find the Jewish Word of God in the Bible, I scanned the pages, checking the little summary quotations at the top of each page. The effect is like a “Cliff’s Notes to the Bible”. The overwhelming impression I got was these Jewish Children of God are really bratty! First God creates a paradise (the Garden of Eden). Then He instructs His children in proper behavior, they disobey (Eve eats the apple), He punishes them (ejects them from the Garden) and repeat & repeat & repeat….. If I were God, I wouldn’t be too happy with my children!
Meanwhile, in the news come stories of the Shia “Day of Atonement” with self-flagellation and bleeding etc. What’s that all about? I began to see a pattern of illogic from the Christian perspective.
Both the Jews and the Muslims see the basic question as “Do I follow the True Faith?” And in seeing this as an either/or question. Their logic goes as follows:
1) There is one true faith.
2) That faith is mine.
3) The other faith disagrees with mine.
4) The other is not a true faith.
So we end up with the Jews saying the Muslims are wrong and vice versa.
The Christian belief is to ask a different question, “Am I obeying God the Father?” This is a yes/no question.
Yes, I obey and will be redeemed.
No, I disobey and will not be redeemed.
So in the maelstrom of Greater Israel, we have Jew against Muslim while the Christians in Bethlehem live in Peace. That is not to say that Christians cannot be just as wrong! Those Christian monks in Bethlehem are Eastern Orthodox, while the largest Christian church is the Roman Catholics and we know how they’ve gotten along historically!
But you presumably have lived the American Creed. And do you recognize where it comes from? The White Anglo-Saxon Protestants! Remember the Mayflower? It is not a coincidence that our nation was founded by those seeking religious freedom from the interpretations of the rabbis, ayatollahs and archbishops!
And if you want empirical evidence, which nation would you say God has blessed? Does “God Bless America” have a familiar ring? That song written by an American “Jew”?"
Update 2/21/05 3:56 AM - I've made some more posts at Discarded Lies. Actually it has been an interesting interplay of ideas! There have been some initial misunderstandings based on our own inherited cultural histories, but it has been quite civil. I encourage one and all to follow the link and read all the comments. As a summary here I would make this point. I am All-American, so that is my inherited cultural history. I am proud to be All-American. I believe we were the leaders in introducing the concept of separation of church and state into the world's consciousness, yet another reason to be proud! The lack of true separation of church and state continues to cause difficulties, even in "democracies" that have state religions. And in my opinion, the citizens of Israel would be well served to show solidarity with an American who preaches that we are, in effect, all the children of God! The Ten Commandments belong to all, even though Moses was a Jew. And it might help concentrate the Israeli mind to watch the end of "Saving Private Ryan" once again, to check out the relative proportion of crosses to Stars of David in the D-Day Cemetery at Normandy before they continue to stand by in silence while an Orthodox Jew harasses an Amercian preaching ecumenism! Or have they already forgotten "Never Again"!
P.S. One of the downsides to being such a "mesmerizing" blogger is you give your audience too much to think about! Someday, my friends at Discarded Lies will add me to their blogroll! ;-)


Anonymous evariste said...

Bruce-actually, neither of us are Jewish although many of our readers are. I'm a lapsed muslim and zorkie's a lapsed Communist, and an unwilling member of the Greek Orthodox churh (she had to get a fake baptismal certificate to be allowed to attend school in Greece).

3:08 PM  
Blogger Timothy Birdnow said...

That was a very interesting discussion you had on DL! I would have jumped in but you had already Shalomed by the time I got there. Oh well!

Evariste and Zorkie, you have an interesting background, to say the least!

5:41 PM  
Anonymous evariste said...

Bruce-Someday, my friends at Discarded Lies will add me to their blogroll! ;-)

We already have! Check out "Boyz in the Hood" subheading in our right sidebar. We randomly show ten links each time you reload the page rather than showing the whole thing at once, so reload a few times to see it if you don't yet...(or, you can click on [See all the boyz>>] to see the whole list at once.

1:54 AM  
Blogger MachiasPrivateer said...

Evariste - Thanks. You know what they say, it's not the number of times you get blogrolled, it's the quality! So American Thinker, Discarded Lies, Scylla & Charybdis, Diplomad, Tbirdblog etc....

Hmmmm....... I think I'm doing GREAT!

2:47 PM  

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